Respect for the corpse is consistent with respect for the perpetrator of a crime. Each soul has value and we need to be careful to show respect to each individual whether by not overdoing punishment for a crime or by honoring the soul of an individual that might otherwise go unrecognized or under valued
I think we are saying the same thing, but with different emphases. It is the human condition to want to be perfect - to run something smoothly and perfectly to achieve goals (remove criminals from the streets and respect and reform them to be useful members of society). I guess where we part is my acceptance that no system is perfect and given 360,000 workers in US jails and prisons some will crack under the tension and make errors, even bad errors. Of course, such workers who make such errors should be punished (fired, jailed themselves). They and all of us are human. When meshiach comes, perhaps we will have perfection.
Very meaningful words, that the punishment is the punishment, but no more than the prescribed punishment is allowed, to avoid degradation of the individual who committed the crime.
I find it interesting that this follows last week's parsha and the case of the Aigel Arufa in which a big ceremony is initiated when an unidentified dead body is found between two towns. I have learned that the reason this is in the Torah and the required actions described in such detail is to reinforce the value of an individual person or soul. The unidentified person (body) needs to be given honor and respect especially when there is no obvious relationship of that body to a community which might be expected to give respect to the found corpse.
Wonderful interpretation of the parsha and its application to modern life. However, I have a small bone (emphasis on small) to pick with you. You gave individual examples of terrible abuses of prisoners and ICE detainees. But you are hand picking a small number of out millions (actually, 1.2 million people serve in US prisons and 30,000+ are currently in ICE detention centers). Understanding that your examples are not a complete list of abuses, this is still a small fraction of 1% of those incarcerated as being treated horribly. Now, that does not excuse at all the incidents. Those that perpetrated them should be suspended and/or brought up on charges themselves per the law. If one is given the power to be a prison or ICE guard, it comes with responsibilities and restraints and procedures. But let's also remember that many incarcerated are wicked (the prisoners), as was stated. No, I know, I know that does not mean they deserve to have medical care withheld or to be killed. But it cannot be pleasant to be a guard and deal with these people on a day-to-day basis. We are blessed to live in civil communities in Westchester and don't come across people of this type. To be exposed to abusive and ill behavior repeatedly has effects on the jailors. Let's have a little rachmones.
What I would like to see is an examination of the SYSTEM. What caused the jailer to have a lapse of judgement or to get overemotional? Are jailers taught and trained right? Is there the right back up system to catch mistakes by jailers before they become deadly? Maybe the parsha does not deal with these issues (maybe it does), but for the here and now, let's put things in perspective and always look for ways to improve the system (even if there are no abuses in a location over time).
Both things are important. The system is broken and needs to be fixed. Until it does, even a 1% problem is ethically and morally problematic. I have a hard time believing God would say, you know what, you're doing pretty good at not abusing people, so I'll let the ones you are abusing slide.
People who work in hard conditions deserve rachmones like all of us. People who abuse other people under their charge, no matter what those people have done, do not.
Part 2
Respect for the corpse is consistent with respect for the perpetrator of a crime. Each soul has value and we need to be careful to show respect to each individual whether by not overdoing punishment for a crime or by honoring the soul of an individual that might otherwise go unrecognized or under valued
Well said! Didn't think about the connection with the egla arufah and I think it makes a lot of sense. Thanks for sharing!
I think we are saying the same thing, but with different emphases. It is the human condition to want to be perfect - to run something smoothly and perfectly to achieve goals (remove criminals from the streets and respect and reform them to be useful members of society). I guess where we part is my acceptance that no system is perfect and given 360,000 workers in US jails and prisons some will crack under the tension and make errors, even bad errors. Of course, such workers who make such errors should be punished (fired, jailed themselves). They and all of us are human. When meshiach comes, perhaps we will have perfection.
Rabbi,
Very meaningful words, that the punishment is the punishment, but no more than the prescribed punishment is allowed, to avoid degradation of the individual who committed the crime.
I find it interesting that this follows last week's parsha and the case of the Aigel Arufa in which a big ceremony is initiated when an unidentified dead body is found between two towns. I have learned that the reason this is in the Torah and the required actions described in such detail is to reinforce the value of an individual person or soul. The unidentified person (body) needs to be given honor and respect especially when there is no obvious relationship of that body to a community which might be expected to give respect to the found corpse.
Wonderful d'var Torah, as usual, Rabbi.
Wonderful interpretation of the parsha and its application to modern life. However, I have a small bone (emphasis on small) to pick with you. You gave individual examples of terrible abuses of prisoners and ICE detainees. But you are hand picking a small number of out millions (actually, 1.2 million people serve in US prisons and 30,000+ are currently in ICE detention centers). Understanding that your examples are not a complete list of abuses, this is still a small fraction of 1% of those incarcerated as being treated horribly. Now, that does not excuse at all the incidents. Those that perpetrated them should be suspended and/or brought up on charges themselves per the law. If one is given the power to be a prison or ICE guard, it comes with responsibilities and restraints and procedures. But let's also remember that many incarcerated are wicked (the prisoners), as was stated. No, I know, I know that does not mean they deserve to have medical care withheld or to be killed. But it cannot be pleasant to be a guard and deal with these people on a day-to-day basis. We are blessed to live in civil communities in Westchester and don't come across people of this type. To be exposed to abusive and ill behavior repeatedly has effects on the jailors. Let's have a little rachmones.
What I would like to see is an examination of the SYSTEM. What caused the jailer to have a lapse of judgement or to get overemotional? Are jailers taught and trained right? Is there the right back up system to catch mistakes by jailers before they become deadly? Maybe the parsha does not deal with these issues (maybe it does), but for the here and now, let's put things in perspective and always look for ways to improve the system (even if there are no abuses in a location over time).
Thanks, as always, for listening.
Shabbat Shalom,
Marc Karell
Both things are important. The system is broken and needs to be fixed. Until it does, even a 1% problem is ethically and morally problematic. I have a hard time believing God would say, you know what, you're doing pretty good at not abusing people, so I'll let the ones you are abusing slide.
People who work in hard conditions deserve rachmones like all of us. People who abuse other people under their charge, no matter what those people have done, do not.